This Week in Poverty : Welfare Reform-From Bad to Worse by Greg Kaufmann (The Nation)
A stunning report released by the University of Michigan’s National Poverty Center reveals that the number of US households living on less than $2 per person per day—a standard used by the World Bank to measure poverty in developing nations—rose by 130 percent between 1996 and 2011, from 636,000 to 1.46 million. The number of children living in these extreme conditions also doubled, from 1.4 million to 2.8 million.
The reason? In short: welfare reform, 1996—still touted by both parties as a smashing success.
The report concludes that the growth in extreme poverty “has been concentrated among those groups that were most affected by the 1996 welfare reform.” The law created the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) block grant, replacing Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC), which had guaranteed cash assistance to eligible families since 1935. Prior to welfare reform, 68 of every 100 poor families with children received cash assistance through AFDC. By 2010, just 27 of every 100 poor families received TANF assistance.
States were given wide discretion to determine eligibility, benefit levels and time limits, and the TANF block grant was also frozen at the 1996 level without being indexed to inflation so those dollars don’t go as far now. A majority of states now provide benefits at less than 30 percent of the poverty line (about $5,200 annually for a family of three), and benefits are below half the poverty line in every state.
Arloc Sherman, senior researcher at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities (CBPP), provides an excellent analysis of the National Poverty Center report here. He notes that while extreme poverty doubled, “it nearly tripled for female-headed households, which make up the bulk of the TANF caseload.”
There was an opportunity recently in Congress to address, or partially address—or at the very least debate—the TANF debacle of sub-poverty benefits and declining caseloads. It wasn’t widely reported, but along with the payroll tax cut and unemployment insurance extensions, TANF was also up for reauthorization.
Congress not only took a pass on any serious debate, it threw a little gasoline on the fire.
It extended the TANF block grant through September 2012 but denied funding for the Supplemental Grantswhich go to seventeen mostly poor states. Dr. LaDonna Pavetti, vice president for family income support division at CBPP, notes that these supplements were created in 1996 because welfare reform resulted in poor states receiving “less than half as much federal funding per poor child as other states.”
“This wasn’t about money,” Pavetti told me. “The money’s already there in the TANF Contingency Fund. Congress could have done the exact same thing it did last year and redirected funds from the Contingency Fund to the Supplemental Grants. Total federal funding for TANF wouldn’t have changed a bit.”
Pavetti said some Democrats sought the redirected funding for the supplemental grants in the final bill but Republicans said it was outside the scope of the agreement. (Not that Democrats seemed to put up much of a fight, if any.)
“These supplemental states have this extra pressure now, but it’s just part of a bigger problem: you have a 1996 block grant that’s eroded in value, you have increased need, and you have no way to adjust for that increased need,” said Pavetti. “Add to that what’s going on with state budgets and the supplemental grants denial just makes it worse.”
According to Pavetti, these are some of the cuts supplemental states are already making: Florida is planning to cut its employment services for jobless workers despite a 9.9 percent unemployment rate; Georgia is reducing funding for child welfare services, child care assistance and substance abuse services; Louisiana has eliminated funding for Individual Development Accounts, which help low-income families build assets.
And here’s a true sign of the times: Alabama is considering ending its participation in TANF entirely, which would cost the state upwards of $141 million in federal funding, and over 54,000 people—including 39,000 children—would lose their monthly assistance. Many of these children would absorb a double hit because the child support enforcement program would also be shut down, and it currently helps 218,000 Alabama families collect about $315 million a year. Presumably Alabama doesn’t want to comply with the TANF requirement that a state spend some of its own dollars on programs for needy families or face fiscal penalties.
But it’s not just the poorer states where the TANF situation is going from bad to worse. “You see cuts that are harmful to very poor families happening in the wealthier states too,” said Pavetti.
With three Democrats crossing over to vote with Republicans, Washington State’s Senate passed a budget that includes $202 million in cuts in the TANF program, an additional 2 percent cut to benefits, lowering the lifetime time limit to forty-eight months, and a loss of 4,000 child care slots. This comes on top of huge cuts last year, including a 15 percent benefits reduction and lowering of time limits, and a consequent 25 percent caseload reduction—meaning people were kicked off. Adjusted for inflation, Washington State’s benefits are worth 40 percent less than they were in 1996 and the maximum monthly assistance for a family of three is currently just $478.
“Policymakers are trying to balance the state budget by taking money directly from low-income families,” Kim Justice, policy analyst for the Washington State Budget and Policy Center, told me. “This is no way to balance a budget in tough times.”
So how does this rise in extreme poverty and gutting of benefits look on the ground?
Jack Frech, director of the Athens County Department of Job and Family Services in Appalachian Ohio, where he has been doing this work since 1973, told me that the state has cracked down on people who fail to meet their thirty-hour weekly work requirement “and in the last six months or so they’ve driven at least 30,000 people off of assistance. The welfare caseload in Ohio is dropping rapidly. ”
He’s traveled throughout the county of late to see how conditions are changing.
“There’s a growing number of families out there—through the combination of time limits and sanctions—who have no cash whatsoever, they’re just surviving on food stamps,” he said. “The housing conditions—people are doubling, tripling up even in little trailers. These kids are hungry, they’re sleeping in chairs, or makeshift beds, crammed together. They can’t afford transportation—they’re stuck out in these communities with no way to go anywhere or do anything.”
Frech used to have funding to help with car repairs and transportation, but that’s mostly been cut. There is some gas money but that doesn’t help with the vehicle or insurance which few clients can afford after covering the basics. But if they can’t make their thirty-hour-a-week job cleaning the dog shelter, or maintaining roads or gravesites, or doing some cleaning for a government agency—“jobs that do very little to prepare them for better jobs out there,” according to Frech—they are cut from TANF.
But what disturbs Frech as much as anything is the fact that there is no political discussion of these issues whatsoever.
“Neither political party is showing any interest in tackling this problem because both parties have hung their hat on this whole idea that welfare reform was a success. You can’t have millions of children living in extreme poverty and call your family support income system a success,” he said. “The TANF program is only for families who have children, and yet you intentionally give them an income that you know is at best half of what they need just to live at the poverty line. I can’t think of any other public policy in America that is more intentionally harmful to children than the TANF program, and I run the program here.”
Crystal S., a single mother of three in Philadelphia and a participant in Witnesses to Hunger, would probably agree with Frech’s assessment.
“It seems like they give you just enough to let you know that you’re ‘less than,’ ” she said. “Just enough for you to realize that life sucks. Just enough for you to hang yourself.”
Get Involved
A six-day hunger strike is being waged right now by seventy farmworkers and allies at the corporate headquarters of Publix supermarkets in Florida. With no right to organize, farmworkers consistently face violations of their workers’ rights, including cases of outright slavery. The fasters are asking Publix to join other corporations like Trader Joe’s, Whole Foods, McDonald’s and Subway and sign onto the Coalition of Immokalee Workers Fair Food program. The retailers require suppliers to meet specified labor standards and pay a price premium for the more equitably produced tomatoes.
This Saturday, the activists will deliver their message to Publix CEO Ed Crenshaw and they are working to create a groundswell of public support to move Publix to join the Fair Food program. Please sign this petition and tell Mr. Crenshaw to meet with the fasters and get on board.
Witnesses to Hunger comes to Boston: Witnesses to Hunger is a project for mothers who know poverty firsthand, offering them the opportunity to participate in the national dialogue on hunger. The project started in Philadelphia in 2008, with women using their own photographs and their own stories to advocate for change at the local, state and national levels. Since then, Witnesses has expanded to other communities in Pennsylvania, Baltimore and now Boston. Eight mothers have taken over 700 photos and videos reflecting their experiences with food, housing, health and education, and thirty-five of those photos will be exhibitedat the Massachusetts State House from March 12–15.
Romney flip-flops on minimum wage but you don’t have to: In January, Mitt Romney came out in support of raising the minimum wage automatically with inflation every year. At least that’s what he told National Employment Law Project Action Fund policy analyst Anne Thompson in New Hampshire. Only now he’s reversed his position—shocker. Raising the wage and indexing it to inflation is an important anti-poverty tool, and for most of the 1960s and 70s a worker with a full-time minimum-wage job could lift a family of three above the poverty line, about $17,300 today. But the federal minimum wage has been raised only three times in the past thirty years and now stands at $7.25 per hour, which results in sub-poverty earnings of $15,080 for a year-round, full-time employee. If the minimum wage had kept pace with inflation, it would now stand at $10.39 and pay a full-time worker $21,611 annually. You can get involved in the fight to raise the minimum wage here—who needs Mitt anyway?
Notable Studies
“Doing Without: Economic Insecurity and Older Americans,” Wider Opportunities for Women. More than one-half of elder households in the United States have incomes that do not cover basic expenses. Massachusetts is the worst state, with a household median budget shortfall of more than $10,000 annually, followed by DC, New York, Hawaii and Connecticut. But the data show that no region of the country offers an affordable safe haven for adults over 65. These findings reinforce the need to maintain a national commitment to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and other vital programs like nutrition and energy assistance.
“Long-term Hardship in the Labor Market,” Center for Economic and Policy Research (CEPR). While unemployment has ticked down slightly, long-term unemployment remains historically high. This report breaks down workers considered long-term unemployed—according to the official US Bureau of Labor Statistics standard—by race and gender, education and age. But large numbers of workers are not accounted for under the traditional measure, so the report captures discouraged workers, workers marginally attached to the workforce, and workers who are part-time for economic reasons. These workers face significant and long-lasting loss of earnings, deterioration of skills, poverty and even higher rates of divorces and reduced physical and mental health. The report shows that this is a burden borne disproportionately by blacks and Latinos, less-educated workers and younger workers.
“Intergenerational Disparities Experienced by Homeless Black Families,” Institute for Children, Poverty, and Homelessness. In 2010, one out of every 141 black family members stayed in a homeless shelter, a rate seven times higher than members of white families. Black persons in families make up 12 percent of the US family population, but represented nearly 39 percent of sheltered persons in families in 2010.
“Prejudice and access barriers experienced by black Americans lead to higher rates of poverty and unemployment, lower educational attainment and ultimately homelessness,” said ICPH principal policy analyst Matthew Adams. “This report highlights how these entrenched problems lead black families to be over-represented in homeless shelters across the country.”
Further Reading
“Reinvigorating the American Dream: A Broader Bolder Approach,” Peter Edelman
“Growing Gaps Bring Focus on Poverty’s Role in Schooling,” Lesli Maxwell
“For African Americans, 50 Years of High Unemployment,” Algernon Austin
“Students Get Proactive About Poverty,” Aviva Einhorn
“Seriously, Where are the Serious Candidates?” Courtland Milloy
“Growing Gaps Bring Focus on Poverty’s Role in Schooling,” Lesli Maxwell
“For African Americans, 50 Years of High Unemployment,” Algernon Austin
“Students Get Proactive About Poverty,” Aviva Einhorn
“Seriously, Where are the Serious Candidates?” Courtland Milloy
Vital Statistics
“The State of American Women,” Center for Law and Social Policy
“The State of American Women,” Center for Law and Social Policy
Quote of the Week
“We’re virtually ignoring the way that we treat poor children in this country. It’s not even on the agenda for either party in the political debate that’s going on right now.”
—Jack Frech, director, Athens County Department of Job and Family Services
—Jack Frech, director, Athens County Department of Job and Family Services
This Week in Poverty posts every Friday morning. Please comment below, e-mail me atWeekInPoverty@me.com and follow me on Twitter.
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Showing 20 of 23 comments
- Sarah Hart here. I truly feel for so many people in poverty. I personlly know how it feels to be a child in poverty, but I guess I should consider myself lucky because I turned 18 in 1996, the same year that the TANF welfare reform was put in place. Now, many more families are in poverty and funding is being cut.
I feel that I understand both sides of this issue, because I can understand the government's point of view as well. Governments are in a financiawl crunch of their own. Many states are bankrupt and the Federal Government is nearly $15trillion in deht and sliding deeper everyday. So, they cut the poor because their vocal constituents say, "people should work for any money they get." Meanwhile, the US has lost millions of jobs.
What is the solution? We need to rethink our entire economy, starting with how we provide services to the poor. - If the net result is a decrease in the surplus population, well, is that such a bad thing.
- Yeah man, just let those children starve to death, sarcasm off. People like you need to be chained to a post near one of those tiny trailers, with hungry children sleeping in chairs, for forty days, with no food, so you can experience first hand what they go through. So you can see your twisted words in action. Then we will see how you feel about those you so casually threw under the bus.
- The USA has about 313,000,000 million people with the top 1% of this number making out rather well, and the 0.01% making out like bandits.
The obvious question, are we as a nation that messed up that 300+ million people can't find enough money to help out 1.46 million people who are living in such poverty that it's on par with the slums of Rio?What is wrong with us? - These people are poor because they are lazy and want to be poor. They pay no taxes and yet demand the same gove services like education as taxpayers. They are criminals just looking for a crime so they can go to prison and get free food, healthcare, and cable TV all paid for by taxpayers.This message was brought to you by the Republican party.
- What an ignoramus.
The poor pay the the highest rate of taxes in every state in the US: Check out your state here:
http://itepnet.org/state_repor.... I bet you are one that believes in "trickle down economics" (I am sickened here). Guess what you idiot, there are such things as "trickle down taxes" as well. This is where the Feds make drastic cuts and then the states raise their taxes to meet what they no longer get. While YOU sit on your ass and pretend YOU are doing it all, in fact you do not make the sacrifice or give as much because (I am going to yell here) THE POOR PAY THE HIGHEST RATE OF TAXES THAN ANY OTHER CLASS... I am wondering if you are not a resident of one of those conservative states who collect TWICE AS MUCH FEDERAL MONEY as Liberal states while their poor starve. They are really doin' it right aren't they? Uhhh have you forgotten a little proclamation by the founders of this country? You know that "silly stuff" they wrote such as this country should be "by the people and for the people..." They did *NOT* say, "By just the Conservatives and for the Conservatives ..."Boy are you a picture of compassion, just like REAL Conservatives! Their preachers pretend they worship God when in fact all they do is worship money, money, money. They live in mansions, use fear to fleece the gullible for their opulent mega-churches, and then use the "poor little black babies" to get more money for themselves. Such as Pat Robertson, that liar who took $1Million supposedly "for the poor little African babies." Then he flew the money to Africa in his private jet (without a gingle Bibnle anywhere but LOTS of financial papers) where he used it to buy gold from mines that little children are forced to labor. Now that I am sure is what you call a REAL Christian and Conservative, right?Got some Jayzuz, you know that "lazy brown man" you people like to joke about behind closed doors?? Read what He told the rich man who asked how he could get to heaven in Matthew 19: 21-24:
21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” 22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. 23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”But nobody will not have to tell you to go to hell, we'll let Someone Else do that. Cat in Seattle - GalLiberal- Please make an effort to think before spewing out mindless rubbish.This message was brought to you by the People of America.
- It is terrible to have to say that the U.S. is becoming more and more a Third World country for so many of its citizens. Things would be different if the U.S. invested in its own people, stopped coddling corporate criminals who made the poor poorer and caused more people to become poor and stopped letting jobs go to cheap labor countries that use modern day slavery. The truth is that U.S. statistics do not reflect the real poverty rate just as the unemployment statistics do not reflect the real unemployment rate.
- Greg
The article and the issue is heart wrenching AT LEAST.
there are many forms of welfare today, so i am surprised the situation is so bad.i cant help but feel MANY of the people in dire straights are directly responsible for their own condition and the condition they put their children in. What the F is wrong with parents that cant feed themselves and they bring a child into that world, and then its impossible to think they do it again, they are criminals in my mind, look at what a life they have condemned their children into.the country is broke, it is possible it will collapse, i have no clue as to what comes of a collapse but i am assuming bad bad bad, we have to stop spending! people NEED to be responsible for themselves and their families.i know someone is going to rip me a new bum hole over this, but i do understand there are instances were shit luck rose up, we have to and WANT to help them, they are FEW!i see KIDS (in groups) wheeling their baby carriages all around the city, going into pizza joints paying with their EBT cards. if you want these groups to get bigger then keep paying for them!I happen to like people, i would never pay for any of these situations not a dime, these kids would not start of in these worse than worse situations because they know they would get nothing! They would probably finish school and work like it was done many years ago or starve.Life is not fair, it doesn't have to beand for those, who, through, no fault of there own find themselves in this awful situation I AM TRULY SORRY!!!!!
and for those who think money is the answer, look in the mirror, you can blame yourself for the bleak future of these poor children. - So its the the poor peoples fault that they find themselves in this situation, spoken like a person who has always had a safety net, who has always had enough to eat. Grow up and quit making generalizations. Its not as simple as you make it sound. There is no black and white in the poor community, as there is no black and white in life. For goodness sake, volunteer at a food bank or job fair or the many places the poor come to or from, then come back here and write about your experience, hopefully it will be dramatically different.
- Is it the fault of people who lost their jobs and have become poor due to the financial crash that was caused by super-rich bankers who are nothing but crooks? They got bailed out and not one has gone to prison. Poor people and those becoming poor bailed out those banksters too.Is it right that crooked bankers who perpetrated massive corporate crime go free and are richer for their crimes? It is not as if the money was honestly earned.
- It is so interesting how bigotry follows the same path, issue after issue. Black people, Indians, gays, etc., ALL have been told they are causing their own problems. ALL.Same wording, expression of lack of compassion, and astounding ignorance.The only cure for this, I'm afraid, is for people speaking such hatefulness to find themselves in the same position at some point.Until then, I hope this commenter takes the advice given out.... look in the mirror. The image staring back is certainly scary enough.
- Bobbolink
the bigotry statement does not apply, and i am wondering why you wrote it. think for a minute, the statements i made are very constructive NOT destructive, you might not agree with them but they are my true beliefs. History and all over the world has proven my statements true.
lack of compassion, ignorance, not sure where that comes from, what if i am right, than this comment is no different from you. i might think you are ignorant for not seeing the problem as i see it, but i can tell from your first comment you feel for these people as i also expressed, if you really read what i wrote.I do live what i preach, however i do spend a lot of time and money giving to those less fortunate.I do believe that in MOST cases of failure the individual HAS caused his or her own problems. we have seen people come out of adversity, Barack is a prime example.
I really care about people that is why i feel the way i do, i know most welfare programs hurt more than they help, but i see that has to continue because most people do not recognize the REAL problem. I believe in people, i believe most will acheive when they HAVE to.I am not an evil person by any means, i have NO evidence that our welfare system is NOT more destructive than constructive, but i have plenty to support my thoughts.I am an evidence guy with an open mind, Bobbolink, rather than insult me come up with statistics that show me i am off base. - (Sigh) ...If you have worked in this field then you must be blind not to admit that poverty is an INSTITUTION, it is most certainly *not* a "choice". Here are some differences that Barak Obama had that many in poverty would never have as he did: 1. He had an UPPER MIDDLE CLASS WHITE FAMILY TO SUPPORT HIS MOTHER AND HIM. The poor do not have such a luxury.2. His mother had an education and grew up in a WHITE NEIGHBORHOOD with better school funding. People in poverty do not have such a luxury3. He himself grew up in A MIDDLE CLASS NEIGHBORHOOD with family besides his mother to support him. Most poor people do not have such a luxury. 4. Even in Indonesia while living with his mother he lived in an UPPER MIDDLE CLASS NEIGHBORHOOD with maids and nannies. Most people in poverty do not have such a luxury. 5. While in Indonesia he WENT TO A PRIVATE SCHOOL. Most poor people do not have such a luxury. 6. When his mother sent him back to Hawaii, his grandmother put him in an EXCLUSIVE AND EXPENSIVE PRIVATE SCHOOL she (not Mom) paid for. Most POOR people do not have such a luxury. It is ignorant and stoooopid to compare Barak Obama to poor people. It is also ignorant and stooooopid to pretend poverty is not an Institution. Institutions are in existence in spite of the horrible damage it causes to entire communities. It continues to exist because this Institution will benefit everyone else but the people who are trapped in it. You must blame others rather than take responsibility for your own actions (or inaction) BECAUSE, THE INSTITUTION OF POVERTY BENEFITS YOU TOO.I will write more about the "benefits" of poverty to upper classes in another post. Which is why the upper class likes to pretend poverty is a "choice". The middle class stays silent because they know they are next and would rather live off the backs of the poor than admit that this Poverty Institution is a benefit to them as well. Cat in Seattle
- mntleo2
thanks for the info on Barack, i hope i still can be impressed with his achievement. but all your comparisons are food for thought in another discussion
Sorry i don't understand the "institution" reference
thanks for the ignorant and stupid comments, i don't think i am either or. i don't think you really think i am either or.
i don't see how the poor and or poverty benefit anyone
there are millions of reasons people of all classes ignore the poor, just as there are millions of reasons people of all classes help the poor.
i do believe there are people who truly need help, but to me they are few.
the children growing up in these conditions have a hell of a time living in and breaking out of this life, as far as blame, i do blame parents, because most of them knew they could not afford to feed the children, they most likely knew the life the children would live and YET they still brought them into this world. they knew they where depending on others to work and pay taxes for them to live. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THEM? (sorry for yelling)
"the middle class staying silent" because they are next, what does that mean?
who lives of the backs of the poor, its truly the other way around - I do not believe that poverty actually benefits people except those who are super-rich. It is morally wrong not to put into place policies that will help the poor to reach their full potential. The very fact that the U.S. has so much poverty is a blight on our society, a true national disgrace. The U.S. loses the talents of the poor because they are poor. How many great minds were and are being wasted because of poverty? The society is losing, not benefiting.There is no political will to make the necessary changes. Obama never mentions the poor. He knows nothing about poverty. He does not care about poverty.The super-rich want poverty because it benefits them personally. Poor people are desperate people and can be easily exploited. The nation as a whole loses. Losing the intellectual capacity of the poor is making us poorer.
- maryann26
poverty in America is a shame, for that there is no doubt. i have never heard anyone say different, it IS a national disgrace.
i contend our efforts (trillions of $) to eliminate poverty only guarantee it.
this is my point - Maryann26: Denial is *not just a river
in Africa ..." You do not believe the poor benefit anyone other
than the super rich? Let me count the ways:How is this true?1. Large non-profits and religious organizations.
A. While they are tax havens for rich "philanthropists" who can give
their "chump change" of $hundreds of thousands and keep $millions. the middle class who give also enjoy tax breaks as well as the tax money the government pays to these large nons, allowing the middle class to ignore the issues of poverty and pretend the poor are at fault.
B. And let us not forget that the middle class also
shop at the large "collectible and 2nd hand stores" where the poor
employed in McJobs not even making the rent ~ some who are working off their
TANF income at less than $1.00 an hour.
B. The upper income hire their spouses and relatives to manage
their large foundations and "direct" these large nons in 6 figure
salaries. Everyone feels real good about how "humane" they are while
living off the backs of the poor.
C. In most of these nons you can literally ascend the stairs to
heaven. At the bottom where the poor are hired to give service to other
poor, there is broken furniture and old computers to the the nicer MIDDLE CLASS management as gatekeepers to the poor, to the top where there is
original art and modern furniture ~ with wages to match each level. D. According to Guidestar, nobody questions that these non-profits alone
receive in government funding and donations approximately $55-66,000 per client
when they they spend on the average of $2000 in direct services. Much of this
is government money. While it is true that it is expensive to run offices
and buildings, one might question how it is that the director makes 6 figures
while their lowest wage workers cannot even afford to pay the rent. So
HOW are these organizations so wonderful again???? E. They are able to depend on free labor with
"volunteers" such as with Jobs Opportunities mothers (TANF) where the
worker "works off their welfare benefit" at below minimum wage, as
well as non-paid court ordered labor ~ whose "employers" do not have
to observe labor laws and they have absolutely no obligation to hire them for
this free labor after they are done using these workers.2. Business
A. The ability to hire cheap labor in order to reap huge profits for the
CEOs
B. Often these businesses are given tax breaks and grants for
"being so nice" as to make McJobs for the poor while profiting off
the cheap labor
C. More tax breaks by cities and municipals given to these businesses
D. In fact most large businesses do little to support the local economy,
they do not bank locally and their profits are not spent locally
E. See "1 F" above, some of these businesses are given free work
by becoming "private contractors" with the government because they
are "so nice" as to give a low income person some work for free
(slave labor).
F. The middle class patronize these "cheap labor" places that cause
only more misery for the poor in punitive jobs that won't even pay enough to
keep on the lights.3. Society and blaming the poor
A. It is quite profitable to blame the poor for everything from the health care
system to hunger, to drugs, to housing. B. While drug addiction and alcoholism by the upper classes is just as bad,
it is traditional to blame the poor for their "bad choices" when they
are domestic violence victims, unable to afford the high rents, have no family
who can help them (as much as they would like to do so), are unable to find
work or work for low wages, unable to feed themselves and their kids, and/or
have serious barriers to working for a wage C. The Prison Industrial Complex. The poor are far more likely to be
incarcerated than the rich. In private prisons (who are able to choose
the healthiest most stable prisoners and reject the rest) they use laborers for
literally pennies an hour to create products for their prison owners. Not only
do these prisons extract $millions in government money and tax breaks, they
also make even more profit off their labor force. More and more of the
prison industry is done with private contracts by privately owned companies.4. Housing. In the 1970s there was a program called "235" where
it subsidized mortgage payments much like Section 8 does now. This
enabled the poor to own their own houses. The benefits from this were
many. Families were able to become stable instead of having to move every
several years as renters do. Their children could grow up in the same
neighborhood, there was an investment that no renter could have that a home
owner could in their communities for infrastructure, schools, and government
structure.
A. After 235 ended, HUD housing was then offered to the THE MIDDLE CLASS AND upper classes at
pennies on the dollars with sweet tax breaks in order to become landlords,
leaving the poor behind with no incentives to improve their surroundings. The
poor are suffering to this day with homelessness increasing by the day and no hope
of ever earning a liveable wage or owning their own homes no matter how hard
they work.
B. While there are many efforts to keep MIDDLE CLASS people in their homes.,
housing for the poor is either gentrified into being unaffordable for MIDDLE
CLASS PEOPLE ~ or taken completely away.
C. Through government loans, grants and other programs THE MIDDLE CLASS got
affordable mortgages, and a stairway to the heavenly home ~ but never the poor.5. We need to re-think what is called "work" and what is called
"doing nothing". Paid work is "work" but care giving is
"doing nothing". According to labor statistics (mostly) women
lose on the average of over $275,000 in paid wages because they have to make
the agonizing choice of care giving. these are not just women who have
children. Women also make these choices whether to work for a wage or
care give for their parents and relatives, and then for their spouses.
F. If our society were to build institutions to replace this
"free" work, it would cost $Billions ~ and merely be a subsidiy for
big business to pay more crappy wages while their worker ignores their loved
one. Yet a woman who "does nothing" will seldom be supported
for doing this work except by other family members and they pay dearly if they
find themselves without that support such as becoming widowed or divorcedG. It should amaze anyone at the staggering amount of formerly middle
class, middle aged homeless women who lived that bad dream. Many of them
have degrees and a long work history, but nobody will hire them. But
since as care givers they "did nothing" all those years, they are too young to
retire and too old to hire, so there is nowhere to turn for assistance unless they
can prove they are disabled. Many of them raised families and contributed to
their communities, but if their husbands found a better life with their
secretaries or become ill and die themselves (using up all the retirement
savings, etc), these women are left with nothing after "doing
nothing" all those years.
H. Older men also suffer when they become unemployed or sick and used up
all their resources. See G above. While they make $1.00 for every women's
75 cents, they are not hired for being "overqualified". If they
are not "disabled enough" they will not see any assistance
either.6. The poor benefit the upper classes in other ways
A. By pretending being poor is a "choice" rather than an
institution, the upper classes and so-called "benefit institutions"
are not compelled to change anything
B. By refusing to see they could be next, the denial of poverty as an
institution keeps these institutions and upper classes with just an edge of
un-named fear to keep themselves "in place" and everything running to
their benefit while being blind to the damage they cause with the poorest.7. The poor pay the highest rate of taxes in every state in this nation. In my state the poor pay upwards of 17-019% of their meager wages. The MIDDLE CLASS pay about 10% of their and the richest pay about 2% of their income.
a. In my state where Bill Gates lives, if he alone paid what the poor paid our state would be out of our deficit and would actually have about $2Billion to spare. Mr Gates supported a tax hike for the rich in this state but THE MIDDLE CLASS VOTED IT DOWN because they could not stand the thought of paying even half of what the poor paid. They ALL depend on the poor to pay the most taxes.
8. I am investigating at this time the VERY classist, racist
institution of CPS as my "epitome" of classism, where it seems to be
just fine to rip children from poor families and "give" them to upper
income families with the attitude that even if this is a mistake, it is
in the best interest of the child to live in middle class instead of with the families who love them. In fact these taken kids suffer a 5-7X more likely chance of
being abused than if left in their homes with services. A. The government financing of this attitude is reaping millions in The
Poverty Industrial Complex by creating another "complex", The Foster
Care and Adoption Industrial Complex, generating billions to take children and
"sell" them to upper income couples.
B. Most of these $millions
are reaped by upper and middle class people who get subsidies for "being so nice" to care fo poor kids. C. The problem is that this attitude
obfuscates the many statistics that exist showing that only about 10% of
these taken kids are in true danger the other 90% would thrive if the
familiy were given services and the child left in the home. This was admitted
by the CPS system, a model of most other state's CPS systems, the CA DSHS in
the case "Humphreys vs County of Los Angeles and that taken kids if left in the home with services fare far better
than if taken.Therefore agencies like CPS
do little to "save" anyone but themselves and their middle class
workers, they do not serve the low income population correctly in such a way as
to give a far greater margin of success.Instead they profit themselves from their
"solutions" that do little for the disabled, the child or
their families ~ mostly by refusing to listen.If they but truly heard the voices within and
the true nature of poverty as an institution something could be done
about it to change the foundations of something that actually causes abuse
and thus a form of PTSD among the poor that upper classes never feel.If they then admitted their own part and did
something more meaningful, it would vastly change this corrupt
System.Instead
they let their community leaders cry about the limited resources to actually
give these opportunities to the low income, while taking it with their left
hands to enrich themselves ~ and then marginalize and blame the poor when in
fact it is themselves who are benefiting from poverty by literally living off
the backs of the poor.On 3/9/2012 7:30 PM, Disqus wrote:Maryanne and Steff:i said I would write about the Institution of Poverty and how it benefits you. Denial is *not just a river
in Africa ..." You do not believe the poor benefit
anyone other than the super rich? Hahahahahahaha! Let me
count the ways:1. Large non-profits and religious organizations.A. While they are tax havens for rich "philanthropists" who
can give their "chump change" of $hundreds of thousands and keep
$millions, the middle class get significant tax breaks as well as the tax
money they pay to these large nons. Let us not forget that the middle class
also shops at those large "collectible and 2nd hand stores" where the
poor employed in McJobs cannot even making the rent ~ some who are working off
their TANF income at less than $1.00 an hour.B. The upper income hire their spouses and relatives to manage
their large foundations and "direct" these large nons in 6 figure
salaries. Everyone feels real good about how "humane" they are while
living off the backs of the poor doncha know.C. In most of these nons you can literally ascend the stairs to
heaven. At the bottom where the poor are hired to give service to other
poor, there is broken furniture and old computers to the middle floors where
the middle class work, to the top where there is original art and modern
furniture ~ with wages to match each level.D. Middle class people are given livable wages as "middle
management"E. According to Guidestar, nobody questions that these large non-profits who receive $Millions in government funding along with their tax-deductible donations. They take in approximately $55-66,000 per client
and only spend on the average of $2000 in direct services. Much of this
is government money. While it is true that it is expensive to run offices
and buildings, one might question how it is that the director makes 6 figures
while their lowest wage workers cannot even afford to pay the rent. So
HOW are these organizations so wonderful again for the poor????F They are able to depend on free labor with
"volunteers" such as with Jobs Opportunities mothers (TANF) where the
worker "works off their welfare benefit" at far below minimum wage, as
well as non-paid court ordered labor ~ whose "employers" do not have
to observe labor laws and they have absolutely no obligation to hire them for
this free labor after they are done using these workers.2. BusinessA. The ability to hire cheap labor in order to reap huge profits for the
CEOs ~ and cheap goods for the middle classB. Often these businesses are given tax breaks and grants for
"being so nice" as to make McJobs for the poor while profiting off
the cheap laborC. More tax breaks by cities and municipals given to these businesses so they can give the middle class cheaper services and goods.D. In fact most large businesses do little to support the local economy,
they do not bank locally and their profits are not spent locallyE. See "1 F" above, some of these privately owned businesses are given free work
by becoming "private contractors" with the government because they
are "so nice" as to give a low income person some work for free
(slave labor).F. The middle class gladly patronize these "cheap labor" places that cause
only more misery for the poor in punitive jobs that won't even pay enough to
keep on the lights. (See any motel, WalMart, gas station, fast food, mini mart, grocery stores, etc).3. Society and blaming the poorA. It is quite profitable to blame the poor for everything from the health care
system to hunger, to drugs, to housing.
B. While drug addiction and alcoholism by the upper classes is just as bad,
it is traditional to blame the poor for their "bad choices" when they
are domestic violence victims, unable to afford the high rents, have no family
who can help them (as much as they would like to do so), are unable to find
work or work for low wages, unable to feed themselves and their kids, and/or
have serious barriers to working for a wage
C. The Prison Industrial Complex. The poor are far more likely to be
incarcerated than the rich or middle class. In private prisons (who are
able to choose the healthiest most stable prisoners and reject the rest) they
use poor laborers for literally pennies an hour to create products and services for their
prison owners' profit. Not only do these prisons extract $millions in government money
and tax breaks, they also make even more profit off their labor force.
More and more of the prison industry is done with private contracts by privately
owned companies whose only decent wages are for THE UPPER AND MIDDLE CLASSES.4. Housing. In the 1970s there was a program called "235" where
it subsidized mortgage payments for the poor much like Section 8 does
now.A. This enabled the poor to own their own houses ~
even when on welfare. The benefits from this were many.
B. Families were able to become stable instead of
having to move every several years as renters do.
C. Their children could grow up in the same
neighborhood, there was an investment that no renter could have that a
home owner could in order to participate in their communities for
infrastructure, schools, and government structure.
D. After 235 ended, HUD housing was then offered to
the upper AND MIDDLE classes at pennies on the dollars with sweet tax
breaks in order to become landlords, leaving the poor behind with no
incentives to improve their surroundings.
E. The poor is suffering to this day with homelessness
increasing by the day and no hope of ever earning a livable wage or owning
their own homes no matter how hard they work.
F. While there are many efforts to keep MIDDLE
CLASS people in their homes, even rent subsidies are shrinking ever day for
the poor. G. Affordable neighborhoods are either
gentrified for MIDDLE CLASS PEOPLE and made unaffordable for the poor ~ or
taken completely away from the poor in order to sell them to THE MIDDLE
CLASS so they could become landlords to the poor.
H. Through government loans, grants and other
programs THE MIDDLE CLASS got affordable mortgages, and a stairway to the
heavenly home ~ but never the poor. God forbid if 235
were to be re-enacted today ~ even with the thousands of tax-deductible empty homes and buildings that are a blightin every city in this nation! 5. We need to re-think what we call "work" and what is called
"doing nothing". We think ONLY paid work is "work" but care giving is
"doing nothing". BAD thinking!A. According to labor statistics (mostly) women
lose on the average of over $275,000 in paid wages because they have to
make the agonizing choice of care giving.
B. These are not just women who have
children. It is also women who care give for their parents and
relatives, and then for their spouses. C. All are forced to
make the agonizing choice between working for a wage or caring for their
loved ones. But the poor are the hardest hit of all in these choices. We seem to think everybody else in the world should raise poor children except their own parents ~ and get paid for it. Still the poor spend a good part of their day in care for their loved ones too ~ with no support whatsoever.
D. While paying nothing in wages, if our society were to build institutions to
replace this "free" work, it would cost $Billions ~ and merely
be a subsidiy for big business to pay more crappy wages while their worker
ignores their loved one.
E. Yet a woman who "does nothing" will
seldom be supported for doing this work except by other family members and
they pay dearly if they find themselves without that support such as
becoming widowed or divorced
F. It should amaze anyone at the staggering amount
of formerly middle class, well educated middle aged homeless women who
lived that bad dream. Many of them have degrees and a long work
history and nobody will hire them.
G. But since they "did nothing" all those
years, they are too young to retire and too old to hire, so there is
nowhere to turn for assistance unless they can prove they are disabled. God forbid if they were compensated in return for this 24/7 hard work by being supported for all they have done for free!
H. Many of them raised families and contributed to
their communities, but if their husbands found a better life with their
secretaries or become ill and die themselves (using up all the retirement
savings, etc), these women are left with nothing after "doing
nothing" all those years.
I. Older men also suffer when they become
unemployed or sick and used up all their resources. See G above.
While they make $1.00 for every women's 75 cents, they are not hired for
being "overqualified". If they are not "disabled
enough" they will not see any assistance either.6. The poor benefit the upper
classes in other waysA. By pretending being poor
is a "choice" rather than an institution, the upper classes and
so-called "benefit institutions" are not compelled to change anything.B. By refusing to see they
could be next, the MIDDLE CLASS denial of poverty as an institution keeps these institutions
and upper classes in place with just an edge of un-named fear to keep the intentionally ignorant middle class where they are to keep everything running to their benefit while being blind
to the damage they cause with the poorest.
7. The government financing of this attitude is reaping millions in
The Poverty Industrial Complex by creating another "complex", The
Foster Care and Adoption Industrial Complex, generating billions to take poor children
and "sell" them to middle and upper income couples.A. Most of these $millions are reaped by middle class people while the poor are blamed for not working hard enough
to afford the rent. The middle class "buy" these children and get subsidies to house them. They are intentionally blind to the refusal that not only would it be 1000% cheaper in tax dollars to help the birth family instead, they traumatize these children for life patronizing adoption agencies making $Millions for their government subsidized services. And let's not EVEN mention the corrupt family court system with their 6 figure judges and paid MIDDLE CLASS staff who not only ignore the Constitution, but profit from it while doing so. .
B. The problem is this attitude obfuscates the
many statistics that exist showing that only about 10% of these taken
kids are in true danger. Maybe it is a shock to the dumbest but ...not only poor kids are severely abused. Many upper class families inflict child abuse every day. The other 90% of these low income kids would thrive if their family were
given services and the child left in the home and again IT WOULD BE 1000% CHEAPER. But hey these subsidies do benefit the MIDDLE CLASS so who cares, right?
C. This was admitted by the California CPS system,
a model for most other state's CPS systems. They have found this in "Humphreys vs County of Los Angeles" that taken kids if left in the home with
services fare far better than if taken and that because of the blatant corruption shown to be routine in family court, their whole CPS system was not to be trusted according to the 9th Circuit Court. But again ...it employs a helluva lot of MIDDLE CLASS people to take poor kids.8. Therefore these non-profits and agencies do little to "save" anyone but themselves and their middle class
workers. They do not serve the low income population correctly in such a way as
to give a far greater margin of success, actually wanting failure to ensue because it employs the middle class.
A. They contract with other "middle class" agencies at far more than if the government did it themselves, where the"middle class" is doing the gate keeping for the poor.B. They all profit from their
"solutions" that do little for the disabled, children or
their families ~ mostly by refusing to listen to the ones suffering from these "solutions."
If the middle class but truly heard the voices within and
the true nature of poverty as an institution something could be done
about it to change the foundation of something that actually causes abuse
and thus a form of PTSD among the poor that upper classes never feel. If they could admit their own part in perpetuating poverty perhaps something more meaningful could be done and it would vastly change this corrupt
System.The middle class is as much to blame as the rich. They are letting their
community leaders cry about the limited resources without saying a word or doing a thing because they benefit themselves. They are taking the resources with their left hands to
profit with jobs, and agencies and large non-profits ~ and then marginalize and pretend poverty is a "choice" claiming there is "not having enough resources" when in fact it is
themselves who benefit as well as the rich.
Cat in Seattle(Edited by author 8 hours ago) - Morning again Cat in Seattleif you have not read my last reply, move down the page I
started your piece over again and want to address it section by section.1 NONS AND OTHERS
1 A, I cannot see how anyone gives “hundreds of thousands and keeps millions”, if you are insinuating that by donating they actually earn money, that’s not true. All donations do is “potentially” lower your tax bracket. These people you are referring to are probably the 15% bracket so if they donate 1 mill they save .15 mill. I gladly thank them for their donation.
The second part of A this sounds backwards to me, the poor are poor because of these jobs.
1 B, its their money, hire who they want, “living off the backs of the poor”; I can tell you that if it where me and the “poor” felt like you do I would shut down my organization and let my bank account grow.
1 C, sounds like snobs, BUT that is life everywhere, most humans are guilty of this it’s in us. SO WHAT, be grateful these even exist.
1 D, again backwards someone earns more so that’s why they are middle class.
1 E, if they receive government money and don’t spend, it becomes profit which they do NOT DO, that government money has to be doled out.
1 F, free labor allows them to give out more, they are NON PROFIT, that means at the end of the year they have a zero balance.
Bottom line here I you have found fault with snobby organizations that give to the less fortunate of us.2 BUSINESS
A, cheap labor, huge profits for the CEOs, you make business sound evil. The basic principles of business is to spend less than you earn, or you are in the bread line again. If you treat the employees bad enough they should work somewhere else or become your competitor, THEY have that power.
Cheap goods for the middle class…. Its cheap goods period… once again the cart is before the horse,
B, the tax breaks, now you have me, I always griped about these, now I see the advantages, BUT IT’S A DOUBLE EDGE SWORD. I want people to WORK, for a zillion reasons, that’s why I have changed my mind. Profiting of the cheap labor, don’t assume all labor is cheap, please, and yes profit off the labor or shut the doors.
C, I doubt that “class” or even “cheap services and goods” is even mentioned in the discussions, you forgot the MOST IMPORTANT word “JOBS”
D, do little? How about JOBS? Profits spent locally, how about when all is said and done the profits are 20% percent of the business (that’s high for many), that means 80% could be spent locally, this does come into the discussions about tax breaks. Another note; and its important! MANY corporations large and small donate locally and participate locally in community projects, I AM GRATEFUL FOR THAT!
E, I don’t understand, sounds like a corrupt situation and I am not surprised the government is involved.
F, again the poor are poor because they can’t or won’t work elsewhere. One side note and I would never categorize the shoppers by class it seems irrelevant. The American people decided years ago that the less expensive goods manufactured elsewhere would stretch their budgets AS THEY DID. Now millions of them are unemployed for the same reason. My parents told me what would happen and that WE the people would be responsible for our own demise. You see each household is a corporation; decisions are made every day with the same survival or greed tendencies as the big guys.3 SOCIETY….
A, quite profitable, I don’t see it, maybe quite easy
B, I can’t say, but you might be right, the biggest difference is the rich don’t ask anyone else to support them. Substance abuse NEEDS to be addressed for sure.
C, prison Industrial Complex, how about prison system? It makes sense the poor will dominate the ranks, but you keep insinuating the “POOR” is a birth to death sentence, I don’t agree.
As a taxpayer I would change the prison system also, I would bet much different than you would.
Again corruption is the order of the day, especially when the incompetent government is involved.
Again what makes the upper and middle is not a stamp on the forehead at birth it is the level to which someone is in based on income.4 HOUSING
A, sounds wonderful kinda
B that IS wonderful
C, I see where you are going and I am getting sad (truly)
D, offered to people with the means to participate, it just happens that the poor did not have the means to participate. No incentives I know what you’re saying, I can feel what you are saying, but I’m gonna blow that one UP. The incentives are the CHILDREN, are you telling me the poor don’t see them as the INCENTIVES. I went from teary eyes at A to being PISSED off at D.
E, no hope, if that’s a result of someone ability or inability to better themselves, that sucks, life IS not FAIR and doesn’t have to be.
F, sad but true, there are situations like this, you examine them and tell me the root cause for any particular situation, I am going out on a limb and saying it’s not society, its not corporations, it’s most likely the persons choices or going back to his or her parents.
G, nothing is affordable when your poor or you wouldn’t be poor, the world and even the poor work on a system of “PAY TO PLAY” (that doesn’t sound very compassionate).
Again it never enters a persons mind “except yours” that those that have want to hold back those that don’t have.
H, the government has nothing to give, you mean the taxpayer gave these out. I am not sure what they are but I probably would not be in favor anyway.
Anyone giving away his or her PRIVATE money to those less fortunate can without constraints or guidelines. IF in the case of affordable mortgages by companies, that implies payback, they should ONLY go to those who can pay them back period. I don’t see those in the poor category meeting the PAYBACK requirement.5 WORK
A, I think when we use the term work in these contexts we are only talking “paid work”, NO ONE on the face of this planet (OK maybe a handful) thinks care giving is doing nothing. If the discussion is paid work and care giving is not paid it is not part of the discussion. Again life is not fair, and does not have to be.
B, I hear you loud and clear, For those woman and I’m sure men you speak about they are HERO’S, they are silent hero’s again life is not fair, and does not have to be.
C, I don’t get the raise poor children……, if you’re thinking “non paid” care givers should be paid, that is an idea that has been knocked around for a while. If you want the taxpayers to do this then make your case, it’s a tough one for sure.
D, Free work; I don’t agree; if your caring for your family ITS YOUR, OR MEMBERS OF YOUR FAMILIES OBLIGATION PERIOD, It does not matter how tough it is, you own it.
E, sorry, but again life IS not fair and does not have to be, not everybody starting at the point you imply ends up as you imply.
F, Even more sorry, but again life IS not fair and does not have to be,
G, now understanding the foundation of your reasoning, I am truly sorry. I do have tears, I could shut up and just listen, but out of respect for your effort I won’t.
H, Even more sorry, but again life IS not fair and does not have to be,
I, understand, agree but what can be done that won’t turn into a life style?6 THE POOR….
A almost afraid to disagree with you any more, but here I go. I believe Americans are the most genetrous people on earth, some things maybe misguided but I am still proud to be an American. I believe MOST of the poor DO have the ability to achieve, the tax payers and YES corporations spend a bunch of money in that effort. Remember 330 million people its tough to get anything perfect.
B, Don’t see it but I will start looking.7 THE GOVERNMENT……
The title is VERY loaded, again the government does very little correct, however it usually has good intent.
“Sell” children to middle and upper class, you mean to people who can afford them.
A, I hate to short this statement because it IS LOADED, and I mean LOADED, I would HOPE there are more positive outcomes as bad outcomes. Your idea of helping the birth family, to retain the children is done every day ALREADY, the taxpayers make it happen, its not perfect because of PEOPLE. I hate to be a jerk and keep saying life is not…….
B, True but they have the almighty cash. That both the poor the middle and the rich worship.8 BACK TO THE NONS AND OTHERS….
A, expecting anything from these groups is just plain wrong and when they deliver even if not perfect you NAIL them.
B, profiting, I doubt it, this country does and spends for the less fortunate, remember the common denominator of the GOOD and BAD are PEOPLE, we are not flawless.Cat, if this is about you; I am sorry for your experiences, although you have a tremendous knowledge of the unintended consequences of PEOPLE. I have not walked in your shoes, not even close, yet I feel I have to close with what I believe. Nobody owes me no matter what my predicament, I owe my children no matter what the predicament. I will NOT blame anyone for my predicament.With your wealth of knowledge (or experience) please share this will anyone and everyone, it is PRICELESS!PLEASE STOP BLAMING OTHERS, show us, tell us how we can affect change that is POSITIVE, tell us about the unintended consequences of OUR giving and lack of givingMOST RESPECTFULY STEFF
FIRST
a - Cat in Seattle
first and foremost i want to applaud your effort, your passion and compassion, that is a boat load of info, thank you again.
i find i am in disagreement with MOST of what i read, NO OFFENSE.
large non profits give away money and help people, i see that as a good thing, the religious are another issue, but once again i see that as a good thing.i don't understand you tax schedule, its not what i look at every year NOT EVEN CLOSE.your understanding of the tax law differs from mine, Bill Gates is obligated to pay taxes on his income for any particular year if he earned pay for example he pays up to 35%, long term capitol gains is 15% but i think you know this already.now he has deductions, i have no clue what they are, if he earns 10 million dollars and only pays 2% then he has given all but 20k away, how could anyone complain about that, "thanks Bill for being so generous, the 9.9 million will help a lot of poor people i am sure. even though you are not obligated in any way to give them a penny.if the poor are paying 15% or more its because they earned enough to pay it, minus their deductions.please help me to understand your point on this.who cares who runs these organizations it is their money. if these people are giving away something they don't have too GOOD FOR THEM, they SHOULD fell good about themselves. YOU should feel good about them too. how can you take some ones generosity and find ANY fault worth mentioning. the point about how much money it costs compared to the money benefit is a GREAT point and also very sad. the issue you bring up is exactly the same one i have for our government. i dont know how to change the greed of ANY individual, rich or poor.not to blow you off, because thats the LAST thing i want to do. i will finish tonight with something that is in my being and it may help you see where i am coming from.I truly believe no one owes me anything and never has, other than my children whom owe ONLY because i helped bring into this world, i owe nobody anything.anything i give to others for whatever reason is my choice alone.i will continue with your document tomorrow if you don't mind, again that you for your thoughtfulness
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